Rain Burn, page 433

[VirBot]

   
Lightning horn goes to your head.

[Netaddict]

Ahh, unquestionably following orders from authourity.

But yeah, 'I have the big stick now, you must do what I say' is addictive.  Raising the kids free of the Quetz would be good, but it's going to take more than a minute or two of effort and a 'but thou must' to make it stick.

[ArchTeryx]

I don't think there's anything unquestioning about the village elder and their wing. The elder Ave thinks this whole thing is sus. If this village is very loyal to the quetz, Brand just blew their cover straight to the Abyss.

Think about it. He ordered them to commit high treason against Saida's own mother. If this village is as loyal to the quetz as seemed at first blush... yeah. The actual Saida is going to have kittens when she sees what Brand did. Ooops.

[Rman88]

Ya, got to point this entire thing out. As Brand is kinda doing something that if i was sadia. I would be very hurt that he thinks she is a *Tyrant* deep down. Even thou we know very well that sadia is the nicest character in rain burn. Someone who would Never exile an entire tribe of birds to the farthest regions of the world. Just out of pure spite for her parents.

Worst bit is, this is never going to work. Besides the fact that it is a dumb idea. their is something that i am willing to bet Most Aves know about her. They know that she is the Nicest and most diplomatic of Queltz in the entire kingdom. So seeing her fly in and start Screaming at people and demanding strange request. Request that she is not willing to explain upon. Is such a massive red flag.

So no wonder once the dust is settled and he is flying back with a Smirk on his face. Saying, wow i did a good job browbeating that ave into doing what i want. Only for the ave to prepare something in the background as she knows Something isn't right. As call them a slave all you like. These aves are not dumb, their not weak, and they are loyal to the queltz for whatever reason. They also Worship the ground Lady sadia floats over. So this imposter is not doing that good of a job being sadia.

[ArchTeryx]

If I were those Aves, I'd think some local kitsune was playing a nasty-underfluffies prank on me and get quite pissed off. They don't have the faintest idea of who that is. Only that it's not Princess Saida.

And the next call on the birdbox is going straight to Laputa. You might be right, Rman. This is gonna be fun... but not for our protagonists.

[Rman88]

Worst part about this is this could have all been avoided if he just Listened to Sadia. Hell if he really wanted to. He could have just took all the eggs with them. Roko could just shove it into his necklace and they could have found a home for it. Instead what was he trying to do? O exiling a bunch of birds to go die in the wilderness. Really makes me wonder what kind of plan if any did he actual have. As right now i am kinda convinced he had no plan at all. And was doing this purely out of spite for the queltz.

O also, Just recalled this. Wasn't their original plan was to find a forest not visited by the queltz. And just live their for the rest of their lives making rain and fire? Might be a good place to start a bird village if you ask me.

[Netaddict]

"I'm gonna steal their kids first" isn't any better.  Do need a good plan, and not one that's just repeating the same evil.

As for unquestioning obedience, yeah, it's there.  It's obedience to the scariest group out there, which is the Quetz.  Brand-as-Saida can be scary, but Saida isn't a massive half-deity Quetz, so it works like this.

"I'm an X, you obey Xes, you must obey me!" got met with..

"I'm going to ask your mother first, the Quetz I actually do obey without question, as you are asking me to go directly against my orders from her."

So Brand has no leverage.  Not the scariest Quetz, and authority from being a Quetz is entirely devolved from Saida's mother.  So no personal authourity from being scary, and no positional authourity from being a princess.  Saida's mom is both scarier and higher in rank than Saida is.

This sort of thing would have worked if Brand knows how it works.  But Brand has ethics and is not familiar with this kind of obedience to authourity.  So Brand doesn't know how to use it.. or abuse it.

Take the example of the Captain of Köpenick, where a raw outsider can come to a place and make them do incredibly stupid things, simply due to their willingness to follow orders, and the appropriate uniform. (Body, in this case.)  But Voight still knew the language, the phrasing, and enough of the culture to know how to use the privileges of the rank he didn't have.  Brand doesn't know how to issue orders like this, doesn't know the language, and doesn't want to have a host of minions.

The part about talking to Saida is partially correct.  A discussion with Saida about how to give the right orders, and how to stop the child-stealing, could well have worked, as Saida may well know how to give orders to Aves that will be followed out, no questions asked.

As a hypothetical, Brand could have said that too many of their children had been stolen and they need to recover from their drafts for a few seasons, and then asked a few follow-up questions.  After the mayor answers them, he could have moved onto issuing more complete orders about hiding the eggs, producing a more plausible story and couching the orders in a way that makes them seem like they come from the Quetz.  That could have worked, which would have ended the child-stealing for a cycle.  It would have required some long conversations with the mayor, and likely some advice from Saida, but it could have been done.

Alternatively, being the big scary monster could have worked as well, but I think it would have been harder.  Saida is only perhaps a bit more powerful than the average Quetz soldier, so it would have taken more prep work in my opinion.  It would have taken more than fifteen seconds of flying around casting lightning bolts, though.

[Rman88]

First of all, the idea Brand has no leverage. Dude he is a queltz, a Snake creature that can fly and shoot lighting. What is the aves going to do about this? Hell the aves of the village are not even trained in combat. So of coarse they would be terrified of Brand. Hell if he was in his old body they would be terrified. As what is worst being Electrocuted to death or being set on fire? Regardless if the birds think they are tyrants or not. Their not stupid, they know they cannot beat a dragon.

Second, Brand dose not actual know anything about the aves. Like has he ever asked the aves if they feel oppressed. Do they actual feel upset losing their children? What is even the whole social deal they have going on? As for all we know they are the reasons why they can live such comfortable lives. The queltz for tribute of servants and who knows what. Are granted unlimited rain and Protection against the horrors of this world. Hell the birds who live in the palace are pretty much indentured servants. Its not like they are chattel slavery.

and yes, this concept actual exist in this world. As guess what the queen of the sea was doing? Using chattel slavery to mine shit. Hell she used littearl mind control to make them obey her every whim. All the while calling herself the Freedom fighters.

Like can we at least Ask the aves if they are happy or not? Before saying they need to be liberated? As shouldn't they have a choice?

Ps. i also argue that The Volcano dragons are Actual the most Terrifying group. Sure the queltz are scary and what not. With their storms and all that. But you got to realize Brand Literally stated that the Volcano dragons Enslave entire species to feed them. Because their bodies need to consume more and more and more Food. Because if they don't get enough food. They get so angry they cause a Volcano to erupt. Sorry a hurricane might be scary. But compared to a creating a cloud of super heated ash and Lava. I think the volcano dragons got them beat.

[Netaddict]

I'll go break this down.

First, I disagree.  Quetz are not better simply because they're Quetz.  Or all dragons.  Or whatever.  Not all Quetz are the same, can do the same thing, think the same things, etcetera.  They're individuals, like everyone else.  That means they should be treated as individuals.  Sure, they are powerful and many of them have abilities, but they're all different from each other, and, beyond that, Quetz can change themselves with time and effort.  They do things, make their own decisions, and live their own lives.

Second, you're strongly defending slavery.  I'm just going to put this out there.  You're saying it's okay to own others, and following up the example with the Aves to provide a second example of slavery existing, in service to the Queen of the Sea.

Someone else doing a bad thing does not justify you doing that bad thing yourself.  You make the decision to pull the trigger, or to send out the blackshirts to do kidnappings or burn down the homes of dissidents.  No matter what the big man tells you, you are capable of making your own decisions.

I'll then state why I believe the Aves do know this is wrong.  Page 415 has the mayor showing off the results of them raising their own children, stating, to someone he believes can allow them to keep more children, that letting them keep their children was a good thing.  He's trying to sell someone he sees as a Quetz Princess that letting them keep some of their children was a good thing, and that they should be allowed to keep more in the future.

End of the day, they should be allowed to make their own decisions.  And they are.  The mayor chooses to try and establish their freedom through diplomacy rather than combat, but the mayor is making the deliberate decision to treat an ambassador nicely, and to try and butter up the princess to the idea of allowing them to keep more of their children.  Brand can help them by coming up with ideas, or by opening up more options for them, or by fighting their overlords and liberating them.  Brand is just too good a person to understand how slavery endures and why some people support dictatorships, and not knowing that, doesn't know how to effectively help these Aves.

[Rman88]

Dude, that is like arguing that Not all Volcano dragons can breath fire... Their dragons... And lets be honest hear brand is Literately Shooting lighting as he threatens to murder the bird. Even if i was their i would be terrified of that. Regardless its a half a ton Flying Snake vs a unarmed bird.. Of coarse they are going to be terrified of that. As they are a freaking Dragon. Dragons who Are offspring of gods. As lets be honest hear all queltz probity are related to Queen Vera. As all queltz are sky dragons. Same as all volcano dragons are earth dragons. Which means Brands actual body is probity related to some earth god.

Second, are they even slaves? You got to realize that Brand is Not a reliable narrator. As the guy is insanely racist. He literately thinks All queltz are psychopaths including sadia who i assume he thinks she is a sociopaths. Further more he is the only one Calling them slaves. So is he calling them slaves in order to justify his actions? Or are they actual slaves? Do they actual have no rights? Or is the whole egg trading thing Just a way for them to pay for goods and services. Is money even a thing in this universe? Regardless we don't actual know the full extent of the deal. That said They don't seem that upset about it. Why else do you think it took them all 20 seconds to decided to Ambush the party after this entire thing? Like if they really had an issue with this? Why wouldn't they just you know do what Brand told them to do? Wouldn't that be like a Golden opportunity to Not sell their children into service?

That said, In the end What was Brands idea? It was to Exile the birds and the eggs to a far off land? Where they would never see their friends and family again. As if they didn't do this, their entire Tribe would be cursed to Die a slow and painful death.  Like if you want to save the eggs. Then might be a better idea to Just Take them all and bring them to a land they can live without being in service to the Quelts. Rather then Exiling them to die in the wilderness alone and terrified. this is assuming they can even reach the mainland. As they might actual Use the queltz castle to travel. And they don't got trinkets that turn them into fish. So their is a good chance they Might never reach the mainland or any land. And just die a slow and painful death sinking to the ocean. Its kinda the worst plan he could have ever came up with.

Ps. Not actual trying to defend slavery. I am just saying we don't actual know what the deal is. Or why the Aves are so loyal to the Queltz. Hell we don't even know why their are Evil Birds. For all we know the aves that become servants. Just live in the giant floating paradise in the sky. And their job working for the queen is Just a job. One that they are either Very good at hiding their disdain for or they Actually love. Granted Getting to serve their gods and live in a floating palace. And possibly even boss around a bunch of Queltz. As clearly while they are not on par with gods. They are on par with the lesser children of said gods. Why else would they have birds in management rolls? Hell the Banner has a bird Clearly acting as an advisor talking to the queen. If they were Nothing in the queltz eyes, Why would Queen Vera have a Bird advisor?